This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. Kommentare . At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. Nice to use new gadgets! According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. That's a lot isn't it? I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. . Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. A Comparison Study of the Thermal Performance of R12 and R134a Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). Note that passwords are case-sensitive. RULES for AOP - Owner Assistance and Contractors, Energy Efficiency and Building Performance Discussion NEW, Carnak Zone/Locked Areas - For Professional Member Only, How To Become a Pro and Rules For Pro Members, Pro Forum: Refrigerants and EPA regulations **NEW, Pro Forum: Residential Refrigeration and Appliances **NEW, Pro Forum: Equipment Recalls and Bulletins **NEW, Pro's Forum: Building Science Discussions, Educational Forums - Open for all in the industry, Welcome to HVAC-Talk's Educational Forums, How to Submit Links, Articles and Quiz Questions, Frequently Asked Questions About Submissions, Physics, Thermodynamics, Fluid Flow and Combustion, Educational, Training & Reference Information, Manufacturer's Technical Information Links, Electrical Theory, Circuits and Electronics, HVACR Equipment, Components & Accessories, Accessories Humidifiers, Air Cleaners, HRUs, Fans, Filters, etc. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Moreso, it had been banned. Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! That switch should close @ 52c. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums R134a vs R12 refrigerant? -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The difference really shows up on the high side. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. The evap is hard to get at. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. Compressor. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! CR4P). Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. Some cars have both an engine coolant temp switch & a refrigerant temp switch, others only the refrigerant switch. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. 1) Warm Air From Vents. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. Temp switch works the aux fan. Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. Only show this user. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. In short, NO! evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. Electric fans do wear out. 2) Frost on the Vents. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. of refrigerant insulation tape. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. Please enter a password for your user account. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. B. However, R134a is better than R12. At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. . Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. I'm not sure. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. But I don't want to waste your time. Helical and Serpentine coils. James10952001. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. R134a requires a different oil. . Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. SO here's my question. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) Any advice appreciated. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. This leads me to labor over every small decision. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. Any ideas from the info above? Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. #4. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. . July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. That would be the "black death" syndrome. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. System has been working fine for a year. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Very nice! Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 They have no moving parts. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance.
Cutting Grass After Nematode Application, Legit Disposable Vape Sites, Alice In Wonderland Funeral Reading, Menelik I Son Of King Solomon And Queen Sheba, Articles D