Stephens book with glee, looking forward to having ammunition with which to spar with the next Protestant who told me that all we need is the Scriptures, or the next Orthodox or Catholic who told me that all we need is Scripture plus the Patristics. Stephen: [Laughter] Uh-oh! Yetzer Anthropologies in the Apocalypse of Abraham (WUNT, 1.438; Tuebingen: Mohr Siebeck, 2020). Fr. And then goats get associated with the Day of Atonement, which means theyre associated with sin, blood, death, Azazel. The primary focus in this essay will be on The most significant biblical passage for the fallen angels tradition . Like, what did the altar do that it had to atone? Stephen: And the people, they mock him and they spit on him. Fr. We had the Sunday of the Last Judgment, so weve had goats on our minds. Stephen: In any way. En (James A.) All right, well, the third half is going to be the shortest half. Mr. Stephen: The Antiochus was obviously a family name of the Seleucid dynasty, and they all took these titles. So I think thats hopefully the important take-away, beyond all the fun stuff and interesting Bible tidbits; that this isnt just about knowing the right interpretation, thinking the right thing, but its about experiencing the reality of Christ. And that is so so heart-rendingly beautiful. We understand theres kind of like a pipeline from there to here. Stephen De Young, have been podcasting together recently and shared about these five-ish angelic falls. But the one that everyone agreed on, out of all of the general epistles or catholic epistles, was 1 John. Stephen: Yeah, and St. Johns going to say this has happened. You know, that makes total sense. So, it was good talking with you. Okay, were going to go ahead and take our second break, and well be back with the third half of The Lord of Spirits. And heres the problem; heres the problem with that: not only is that, I think, just incorrect, but it also makes it so that all the other waysas weve seen so many of themthat the ritual of the Day of Atonement is expressed in the New Testament and in the work of Christ, you miss a lot of that, because its been reduced to a system. Fr. And so it intrudes into the camp or into Israel or into sort of a renewed anti-typal Eden. Andrew: Right! How the Devil Got His Hooves and Horns: The Origin of the Motif, "The Embarrassing and Alluring Biblical Giant," online at Bible and Interpretation (2 December 2015). Follow Stephen De Young and explore their bibliography from Amazon.com's Stephen De Young Author Page. Fr. Stephen: In St. Matthews gospel in particular we see a lot of this connection to Christ as the scapegoat, and one of the places where we really see that isnow this requires you reading some outside the New Testament literaturebut the epistle of Barnabas gives a little bit more detailed description of how the Day of Atonement ritual was being performed, sort of in some of the small details that had accrued over time, in the first century AD. Fr. Fr. Christ is the High Priest who does this final Day of Atonement, the one that ends them all. And he takes that over from this Second Temple literature. We will find that the only reading of the Bible that results in tall tales about "giants" is not a literal one but one which I call a theo-sci-fi eisegetical (pseudo) hermeneutic. Fr. Fr. Fr. So were talking about the cover, the lid of the ark of the covenant that has the cherubim on it. Fr. I am coming to understand that the Orthodox view is the correct one. Atonement for the Whole World - The Whole Counsel Blog It may be the case that this scholarship does vindicate the claims of Orthodox Church, but much more work needs to be done connecting the dots. I mean, is is a good goat and a bad goat? The first is that Orthodox Christianity had to interact with heresies, resulting in various doctrinal formulas such as Trinitarian doctrine. [Laughter] Go back where you came from. So I mention all that because, as we read Scripture more and as we live the Christian life more, if we understand what it is that Christ is doing and how the Scripture tells us what hes doing, then that gives meaning to so much of our lives. Fr. I dont know. Can you hear us? YouTube All right, thank you! Andrew: I suspectyeah, thats right. Basically, you extract its blood. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, I know. Its not like magic wood that they went and found in the enchanted forest. And so the kefir roots, usually transliterated as K-F-R, is a group of words that primarily means to cover, the verb forms. Andrew: [Laughter] Right, no, no, no, theres more. Stephen: Ruined, yeah. Andrew: Yeah, what is it about that blood that actually has that purifying effect? Fr. I mean, St. Matthew is himself a Jewanti-Semitic?hes writing the most Jewish of the gospels, the most Hebraized of the gospels! Stephen: Weve talked about that theres kind of an anti-theosis that happens. Fr. Coming from a Protestant background and having read Revelations a couple of times. So the Torah and its rituals, including the Day of Atonement, cant be an end in themselves. Fr. Stephens historical research dismantled beliefs that I held in common with thousands of other modern Christians about the Bible and its teachings. Lord of Spirits: Sons of God, Equal to the Angels. The Sons of God as a Polemic against Royal Immortality: A Philological and Literary Comparison of Genesis 6:14 and the Epic of Kirta, WHO 'FELL DOWN' TO OUR EARTH? Well, again, weve got you coveredand no, I will not get tired of that joke. So how could the Jews who did not convert to Christianity still practice their faith? But the basic idea is that, as Leviticus says elsewhere, that blood is life, the blood of an animal is its life, so sin, this taint of sin and corruption, is death. This element of the eschatological Day of Atonement, that Azazel is finally defeatedits not just sending him back his sin while he continues to control the rest of the world out there, but hes done away with and disposed ofis, as we said Hebrews is going to be peppered all the way through here. Fr. Andrew: Outside the camp, yeah. Stephen: Yeah, you dont get much worse than that. Im going to make it look like that? Sorry. Fr. So hes using atonement in this biblical sense weve been talking about, of purification, but Christ does it by living it. The Lord of Spirits en Apple Podcasts We experience them in worship, we experience them in our interactions with other people when we show the love of God to them, we experience them in the peace we receive from God, in the actual forgiveness and healing we receive for our actual sins on a day-to-day basis. Now that dome is expanded to encompass the whole world, because Christnot only does he not just send the stuff back to Azazel, he gets rid of Azazel. Fr. This is going to be the Person who does this eschatological Day of Atonement. Fr. Dan: Yeah, the second question was: What was it about their understanding of the goats blood that was understood to have a cleansing or sanctifying effect over the various parts of the holy of holies and the Temple that you guys discussed? In the Orthodox Church, Greek is kind of our base language for theology and liturgy and so forth. You guys are all asking the wrong questions! In what manner is the atoning work of Christ mediated to the world, or could we say that it is mediated to the world by the Church? And then he also takes away the sins of the world, meaning the sins that the people commit; he takes away their sins. Because obviously, if you interpret it purely as related to sins and the forgiveness of sins, then not everyone in the world has their sins forgiven, but And so you have to And thats where Peter Lombard in the eleventh century comes up with the idea of sufficiency and efficiency, that Christs sacrifice is sufficient for the world but not efficient for the world, and on and on and on. Stephen: This idea of, Hey, maybe the serpent in Eden was telling the truth. Fr. Fr. Stephen: Thats the crucial battle where the Judean army, led by the Maccabee brothers, defeated the Greek forces, at the Battle of Emmaus. Stephen: So, yeah, Im actually not answering your question. The Religion of the Apostles presents the Orthodox Christian Church of today as a continuation of the religious life of the . About Fr. Andrew: Leave reviews and ratings, but, most importantly, share this show with a friend whom you know is going to love it. Fr. We are happy to have you. Theres a text variant there as to whether it says monon or monn. So were going to talk about some Second Temple literature. Andrew: But we have two goats. He picks up this idea of the eschatological Day of Atonement, and he says, Its Christ. Photius in Texas. And what this results in, in all three of those texts I mentionedthe book of Enoch, Slavonic Enoch, and the Apocalypse of Abrahamis that theres going to be this eschatological Day of Atonement, meaning weve got this annual Day of Atonement that we do every year thats sort of managing things, because every year we go and we sin a bunch more and then we have to do it again, this vicious cycle of purifying this limited sacred space. Yeah, and then again Hebrews 10: How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of Godand heres the important part here, for our purposesand has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified and has outraged the spirit of grace. So, again, the blood of the covenant does this sanctification. The Very Rev. And if they did, what was that signifying when they laid hands on it? Andrew: All right. The other problem with seeing atonement as a kind of system is that it actually disconnects it from the actual Christian life. Fr. Fathers Andrew Stephen Damick and Stephen De Young focus on enchantment in creation, the union of the seen and unseen as made by God and experienced by mankind throughout history. Dont trust me: read the Torah for yourself. [Laughter] But when hands were laid in sacrificial rituals Its the goat for Azazel where it says he lays hands on it and then pronounces the sins. Andrew: I know. Fr. And then this triggers everything: this triggers St. Pauls mission now out to the nations, to go and sort of re-take them. Fr. Wow. Its really cool. Partially reviewing what the paper states about the Bible specifically. Stephen: No, no, enjoy what you like. No, I know what youre saying. The views of select philosophers and theologians on the implications of the Mesopotamian and apocryphal texts in the testaments will be explored. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, probably. When Christ says hes sanctifying himself, its not as if he was unholy before and hes doing some action; that him sanctifying himself is talking about his incarnation, his earthly life, and his coming death, in which he has sanctified himself, his person, in order that his disciples in all ages would be sanctified, would be made holy. Dr. Stephen De Young, creator of the popular The Whole Counsel of God blog and podcast, traces the lineage of Orthodox Christianity back to the faith and witness of the apostles, which was rooted in a first-century Jewish worldview. Andrew: Yeah. https://t.co/34f7bN9K4d, The intellectual life is like a love affair, or like prayer. I mean, this is how granular this gets. But of course, what is impossible for man is possible for God. Andrew: They are not, and most people who have breakfast are not breaking a fast. Fr. And now were going to turn towards the New Testament. Fr. Fr. I have this crazy new doctrine of God I want everyone to follow me on. But, yeah, theres this reference in 1 John 3:12, which makes reference of Cain being of the wicked one, who murders his brother. How does him healing diseases fulfill that? Andrew: [Laughter] Yeah, actually we looked this up and we could find no link, but who knows? Andrew: Okay, well, so related to that, actually, we have a caller. Andrew: [Scoff] Yeah! God Is a Man of War: The Problem of Violence in the Old Well, that is our show for today. Andrew: Yeah, which we talked about before, a few episodes back. Fr. Stephen: And not just in the way that all words are made up; its very deliberately made up, very deliberately invented to describe something that there wasnt really another good word in the English language for. Johannes U. Ro and Diana Edelman, BZAW 534 (Berlin: de Gruyter, 2021), 263-88. Name that word! Stephen: A demon, right, what we would call a demonwho is the one who has power out there in the wilderness. [Laughter] How many times have we said now: The killing is not ritualized in any way? Like, its lovely; its a very nice idea. Fr. You guys know, right? You can get super in the weeds! We read everything, but cant respond to everythingyou send so much!we do save what you send for possible use in future episodes. Fr. The Bible provides us with some similes pertaining to height. Fr. And a very well-known biblical scholar and a very good biblical scholar, Simon Gathercole, who wrote the magisterial material on the Gospel of Thomas, for example, amongst many other great things, did a book a few years ago on atonement, trying to defend the particular atonement theory of penal substitutionary atonement. You get these atonement theories that are then theories of how it works from Gods end; how God does it.